LANSING (WWJ) – A State Senate committee on Thursday approved changes to Michigan’s concealed weapons law that include allowing people to carry concealed guns in churches, schools and sports arenas.

The legislation now goes to a vote in the full Senate.

Under the new law citizens would be allowed to carry their weapons into churches, schools and sports arenas — places they currently aren’t allowed to be packing heat. The proposal would also eliminate the state’s 83 county gun boards and transfer the power to issue CCW permits to local sheriff’s departments.

“Basically it’s a pretty huge rewrite of the concealed weapons permit law,” said WWJ Lansing Bureau Chief Tim Skubick.

Under the amended law “highly trained” permit holders would be able to carry in the gun-free zones – which would require extra hours of training and more rounds fired at the range beyond the current basic requirements.

One state lawmaker on Thursday used a dramatic demonstration to point out what he calls the “absurdity” in Michigan’s  current concealed weapons law.

State Senator Arlan Meekhoff pulled back his jacket in a Senate Committee hearing to reveal his holstered gun. He demonstrated how he could openly carry in schools and churches, but how it would be illegal if he covered the pistol with his coat.

Meekhoff said eliminating those gun free zones is not the goal.

“What we’re trying to do is to have the most highly trained citizens who are CPL holders to … give them the opportunity to defend themselves even in these areas, and carry concealed,” Meekhoff said. “because not everybody’s comfortable with seeing a weapon on somebody’s belt or on their hip.”

Meekhoff said he almost always carries his gun during Senate business, which is legal.

State Senator Mike Green, who is chief sponsor of the new legislation, was the original sponsor of the “shall issue” law in 2001, which created for the first time the ability to carry a concealed weapon in Michigan.

“When this first proposal came up for concealed weapons, Jennifer Granholm, a former prosecutor, said Michigan will turn into the wild, wild, West, that there would be people running around with concealed weapons, shooting one another. And it turns out she had to eat her words and Mike Green made her eat her words because it did not turn into the wild, wild, West,” said Skubick.

Currently, there are more than 305,000 active CCW permits.

“Here’s the point that Mr. Green makes, that this is a deterrent to crime. If you don’t know if the person next to you on the bus or at the sports arena is carrying heat and there’s a doubt about it, you’re going to think twice about committing a crime or trying to accost them or whatever, that is the theory. But, the anti-gun crowd says if there’s a gun in some place, eventually someone’s going to use it and somebody’s going to get hurt,” said Skubick.

“This is a long debate over the second amendment that we will continue to have in our blessed country until we go under,” he continued.

Comments (110)
  1. sineofthetimes says:

    Does this create jobs?? Maybe for the NRA…schools, really such a good idea??? idk.

    1. Green Pus says:

      If it creates one job it has created more than Obama

      1. Green Pus is a dimwit says:

        Well that’s about as big a lie as I’ve heard.

    2. Ross Plots says:

      Some of those college kids and teachers that hid under desks in their barricaded classrooms until the killer(s) got around to them would now have a chance.

  2. Joe says:

    I agree with twarns. However there is further legislation in committee that would allow for keeping the firearm in your vehicle on someone else’s property. These two items should be combined.

    Also, anyone that posts a “no guns allowed” poster, stands to lose a LOT of business in this state. Even my wife, who is not a CPL holder, says she won’t do business with a criminal-friendly business. She’s afraid that if she goes in there, the only person might be the criminal who doesn’t care if they are breaking the law. God I love a good woman…

    1. scott says:

      Excerpt I would be more inclined to shop in a gun free zone. Then I would not have to worry about being shot. crooks will rob a place with or with out the sign. If a person walks in with a gun and points it at you are you really going to try to pull your gun?

      1. Bill says:

        Yes you cannot just give up. Don’t you have a will to survive as soon as you give in you lose. And you should feel safer knowing that someone may be there to save your life or your families life.
        Also a trained ccw holder trains and practices at ranges for just such situations you need to be aware of your surroundings and learn to read people failure to prepare is to prepare to fail

      2. Kyle says:

        All concealed carriers are qualified to carry for a reason so those situations are usually adressed in every carry class and like some of us who are already trained in the Military or Law Enforcement know how to handle situations less stressfully because of experience.

      3. twarns says:

        Kyle Said:

        All concealed carriers are qualified to carry for a reason so those situations are usually adressed in every carry class and like some of us who are already trained in the Military or Law Enforcement know how to handle situations less stressfully because of experience.

        Tell that to Trevan Martin.

      4. theaton says:

        Two and a half million crimes are prevented each year becuase someone does pull their gun when being victimized. Would you have those two million crimes succeed?

    2. Scott says:

      Also, anyone that posts a “no guns allowed” poster, stands to lose a LOT of business in this state. Even my wife, who is not a CPL holder, says she won’t do business with a criminal-friendly business. She’s afraid that if she goes in there, the only person might be the criminal who doesn’t care if they are breaking the law.

      Wow Joe you are quite the arm-chair quarterback know-it-all aren’t you? Your statement is riddled with ignorance and lies. I highly doubt your wife only shops at businesses that do not allowed guns which is nearly impossible to search out and it would take too much time to research and follow-through in action. Businesses that do not allow guns are not criminal-friendly businesses. Really? How did you come up with that tripe? And you’re wife says (if she ever did — and if you’re really married) that she “if she goes in there, the only person might be the criminal who doesn’t care if they are breaking the law.”

      Dude, your post is hilarious and full of lies and deep sh!t at the same time. Nice try but it fails because I am much smarter than that.

  3. twarns says:

    How is it that I would be safer if I took a gun to Ford Field when there are 60K other people there?

    When was a person ever shot at a Lions Game, U of M game, MSU game, Pistons Game, RedWings Game, Tigers Game? How are they not safe. All those venues wand you, inspect you, and search you and your purses and coats. They are the safest place in all of Michigan.

    Here is his logic:

    What we’re trying to do is to have the most highly trained citizens who are CPL holders to … give them the opportunity to defend themselves even in these areas.

    Ok defend them from what, there are no weapons there. Not one incident in over 150 days for the last 50 years. What is being defended?

    How does carrying a gun to those venues make anyone safer?

    1. Fish says:

      The streets walking to and from the sports arena is open game, so if i can’t carry insid, I’ll have to leave my gun in the car. So walking to and from the event, which often times runs late in the evening, down streets or alleys to my car i would be unarmed. criminals KNOW that people leaving these events aren’t carrying, so it makes them a safe target. It isn’t just for safety inside the event but to and from it.

      1. twarns says:

        But you are ignoring the law. Property owners in Michigan have the right to ban firearms in their establishments. The LIONS will ban weapons from Ford Field. Churches will, Schools will. All the exempted establishments did not have to explicitly ban the weapons. The change in the law is that those establishments can and will ban weapons within their property rights and the existing Michigan Laws.

      2. Fish says:

        twarns, as the law is today, any business owner can ban weapons. TRUTH is large majority don’t. You assuming that all arenas and churches would ban them is a little unsubstantiated. do you speek for them?

      3. twarns says:

        The exempted establishments are not required to post or declare anything as they are exempted by law. If the law changes, then yes every church,school, bar, movie theatre, arena etc will be told by their attorney that they need to do something.

        In addition, their insurance companies will tell them they will need to ban weapons from their properties. It may be that some small, ill informed establishment will not do something, but do you really believe the Lions will just ignore the law change. That is a pure fantasy.

      4. Fish says:

        Twarns, Get your facts straight. Movie theaters are not part of schools bars arenas and churched. only arenas / theaters that seat over 2500 in one common area. Never been to a movie theater that big. Do you work for the LIONS? or are you just their BIGGEST FAN? You reference them alot just currious. According to your reasoning, all businesses would ban guns, as far a liability goes. I have not yet been to an establishment that posted no weapons. So the only places i know of right now that have a ban, are the ones where it is banned by law. True many conpanies have a ban on premises for their employees, i have worked for some. However even these companies didn’t post it to ban clients or customers or general public from carrying on their premises. you must really rely on inimformed readers that follow blindly

      5. twarns says:

        Fish, if a movie complex has more than 2500 seats, it qualifies as a theatre. With most of the movies complex today easily have over 2500 seats. This is discussed at the FAQ.

        I do not work for the Lions, nor their biggest Fan. I could use the Tigers, Pistons, RedWings, Wolverines,Spartans, etc as well. When you go to the Palace they search you for weapons. Why in your wildest fantasy, do you think they will stop that. Same is true at all those arenas.

        My point is the difference in the law.. Now you could leave your firearm in your car in the Palace parking lot. Under the new law you cannot. Do you really beleive that the NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL/NCAA, multibillion dollar businesses, will allow any of their venues to allow weapons from the public? If so you are being ignorant.

        Now churches, schools, etc do not need to have a weapons policy. Now they will have a weapons policy or they open themselves to ANYONE to bringing a weapon to their property. That is a big change for them. And if you want to believe that they will do nothing, go ahead, but that would be ignorant.

        I guarantee you, every school district will have policies in place immediately. They will not allow any teacher to carry a firearm in the school, it will not happen. They will not allow any parent in the school with a firearm, it will not happen. They will not allow any of their vendors in the school with a firearm, it will not happen. They will not allow any stranger in the school with a firearm, it will not happen. Today they are exempted, but when that exemption goes away, every school district will have to make some sort of policy decision. And the difference is before, they could not ban the weapon from their parking lot. Now they can.

        If they fail and allow firearms on their property and anything happens, now they will have a bigger problem than a random shooter showing up one day. Why because they had it within their power to prevent it. And you think , their insurance company won’t insist, their attorney won’t insist, their unions won’t insist.

        To suggest otherwise, you are now being ignorant.

      6. JBird says:

        If a business or property owner says they don’t want guns on their premises it doesn’t make it illegal to carry there. You won’t get arrested, only harassed, forced to leave, and then barred from the premises. If you arein an area where it is actually illegal to carry, then it matters.

      7. specom says:

        JBird it is indeed a violation of the concealed carry law to carry into a business that is posted. You had better look it up before you lose your CPL and face fines and jail time.

    2. scot623 says:

      How are robbed on the way to or from those games you mentioned? That is the problem, not the event itself. So if I’m not allowed to carry in the game, I’m not allowed to carry to or from it either. This fixes that problem.

    3. scot623 says:

      How many are robbed on the way to or from those games you mentioned? That is the problem, not the event itself. So if I’m not allowed to carry in the game, I’m not allowed to carry to or from it either. This fixes that problem.

    4. Jack says:

      I’m not concerned about an incident involving one shooter, I am concerned about a terrorist or group of terrorists who would target a sports venue. They would have open season on everyone there.

      1. twarns says:

        Jack, is that some sort of fantasy that you with a pistol will stop an organized group of terrorists?

      2. Marko says:

        Hey Jack, you’re watching way too many movies. Quit thinking that you’re going to be a hero. The only ones that become hero’s end up dead. And you’re reasoning about terrorists attacking stadiums is mathematically so great that it will probably never happen.

    5. JC says:

      An armed society is a polite society!

      1. harley02 says:

        Marko, I guess your right terrorist would probably never do that type of thing in a stadium, and they PROBABLY would fly 2 commerical jets into the trade center in the middle of new york either!

  4. harley02 says:

    twarns, Them passing this law to open up pistol-free zones is a good thing, you dont need the gun in the arena but the walk to the arena.

    1. twarns says:

      Tell us which walk to the arena you are not safe?

      Currently you can take the gun with you on your walk. You cannot take the gun into the arena. So again Why should you bring in any gun in a public space with 60K to 100K people who have been patted, and screen for weapons?

      Maybe a better solution for you is to park at a safe place rather than carrying a gun into an arena.

      1. harley02 says:

        Look at your post, “Currently you can take the gun with you on your walk. You cannot take the gun into the arena” With that being said, when i have my gun and i want to carry it on the way in for safety what do i do with it when i get there? Throw it in the bushes? with the new law i can carry it in and out of the arena and be safe walking back to my car.

      2. twarns says:

        Reply to Harley02.

        The new law does not prevent an Arena owner excercising his property rights and not allow weapons inside. Do you really think the Lions are going to allow weapons inside Ford Field?

        The difference is if you can leave the weapon in your car in their parking lot. Now you can, under the bill you cannot.

        From FAQ

        as an owner of a private establishment has the legal right to ban guns if he wishes

        If the corporation has a blanket policy against all weapons “on site,” that can be reasonably interpreted to mean the parking lot. It is certainly within the corporation’s authority to ban any person or thing from its property, including the parking lots.

        You are, of course, correct in saying that your employer has the right to prohibit weapons, including firearms, on its premises. This prohibition may include both employees and customers.

    2. ccw says:

      Amen, man.

      1. Stacy says:

        If this law changes, these stadiums will take a second look or they will lose fans. IT ISN’T SAFE IN DETROIT. The people down there are killing each other for gods sake. Why would I want to go somewhere that is already a blood bath? If I could carry my pistol I would certainly feel more confident about not being mugged, attached, raped or killed.

      2. specom says:

        Stacy you and your gun are not welcome here, feel free to never return.

  5. ccw says:

    If you don’t want a concealed weapon, don’t get one.

    1. JOSE0311USMC says:


      1. Stacy says:

        Well technically they can’t but they don’t give a damn..

  6. twarns says:

    Senator’s Logic:

    What we’re trying to do is to have the most highly trained citizens who are CPL holders to … give them the opportunity to defend themselves even in these areas.

    I have yet to hear what you are defending from at a Lions Game? Everyone there is unarmed. So what is your opportunity to defend? That is his logic not mine. I am just asking what is being defended?

    Has there ever been a situation where the existing security could not provide the necessary security. Please let the rest of us know when this happened.

    So for the rest of us, please provide even one example of a highly trained civilian indiviidual would be needed to defend anything at a Lions game when there are over 60K people in the vicinity.

    Just one example for this senator’s remarks makes sense.

    1. Jim says:

      Talk to the gentleman from Dearborn that was beat up leaving a Wings game a couple of months ago!

      1. twarns says:

        Again no example of needing a gun at the Wings game, or a Lions game.

        If you look at my original post, I was pointing out that currently you could take your weapon to a Wings game and if you parked on Wings property, then you could leave the weapon in your car.
        Under the new law, the Wings will not allow weapons into the ARENA as their right as rentor of the facility AND you could not leave your gun at their parking lot.

        Now you can leave your weapon in the car. Under the new law you could not.

        If anyone believes that any arena owner, hospital,church, or school is not going to post signs and make a policy to ban weapons as it is today, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

        If you think that you will boycott any of these businesses into submission and allow a weapon inside, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

        If a weapon was ever discharged during a Wings game, then they would lose 20K fans immediately and I would even suggest that the players would not feel safe to play in Detroit. It would ruin any sports franchise, if a weapon was ever discharge by non security personnel. A boycott is insignificant compared to a weapon discharge.

        Bottomline is from a practicle standpoint, the the new law would not have helped the gentlema from Dearborn.

    2. Fish says:

      It’s not just for sports arenas. but schools, churches. The new law would allow certain teachers and school staff to carry concealed. do you remember hearing about any school shootings? armed teachers and staff could’ve quite possibly reduced deaths and injuries. Same thing with churches, it’s not unheard of that churches become the target of violence or robberies. not just on sunday, but during the weeks office hours. what the law would do is allow people to not remove their guns during daily routines. a gun is safer in the owners control than left in the car where it could be stolen. Cars are stolen from parkinglots all the time. at school, sporting events and church. personal experience. better to have the gun on you than get in the hands of a car thief right?

      1. twarns says:

        It is the property owners choice to allow weapons. Do you really beleive that a Church will allow anyone to enter their building with a weapon? Of course not. Do you really think a school will allow any person to enter their building with a weapon? Of course not. As an employer, do you really think that just any employee can have a weapon? of course not. Teachers will not be allowed to have firwarms at their workstations or in their classroom, that will be a huge liability on the employer. The school will have school secuirty responsible, not a teacher. And I am sure a 911 call to police from a school will have the highest priority and immediate response. As an employer, I would want the trained professional to take care of the situation rather than an employee. That is just good business practices.

        Finally, if I as a property owner ban weapons, then that includes the parking lot. You should not have a gun in your car in my parking lot in the first place. So if your car is stolen, there should have been no gun.

      2. Fish says:

        As a matter of fact, there are lots of churches that do allow concealed carry, I personally know a few pastors that carry (in church) as well as many in the congregation. you are writing blanket statements with out really knowing actual info. You may like being a human target and just lay there and take it, but most people like having a fighting chance.

      3. twarns says:


        Good for those churchs, but they are violating the law today. As I have said, it is the property owners choice and a church could certainly allow anyone to enter their property with a weapon. However, the change in the law does not give people a free pass to enter any church, etc. The final say is the property owner not the gun owner.

        I will guarantee you that the Lions will not allow any weapons in their facility.

      4. Fish says:

        What law are the violating? The Law states that you cannot carry concealed on said premises unless permission is given by an owner or managerial person. If the church allow it, it falls within the laws. Study the laws first, like the people that carry concealed have to.

  7. Port Side says:

    Can’t wait to see the temporary ‘GUN FREE ZONE” signs going up, until they realize every NON BRIDGE CARD patron boycott’s their establishment!

  8. JayUVA says:

    Sounds like people in Michigan have fantasies of stopping a spree shooter or some other good samaritan fantasy. Guess the NRA lobbyist has been busy pushing for this, promising how much safer everyone would be if only more citizens had firearms, blah blah. Just wait until the bodies start piling up due to bullies who initiate a confrontation then after they realize they might get their a-zz kicked in a punchfest, they pull their gun and shoot the other guy dead, then they hide behind some very generous self-defense law and are immune from being prosecuted – even though they are the one who provoked the whole confrontation. That is what liberal gun carrying and generously broad self-defense laws have been the results in Florida.

    1. D1Spartan says:

      It sounds like you have fantasies that all CPL holders are kill crazy, or looking for a fight. It’s ironic, since the 4 nurses I took my class with didn’t seem that way to me.

      What you’re describing is not a responsible CPL holder, or gun owner for that matter, which is a very small percentage. One of the first things they teach you in the CPL class is you are not immune from prosecution, especially if you provoked a confrontation. It’s the same reason why brandishing is illegal. You are taught to only draw your weapon if you feel threatened, not to do the threatening.

      I think it would really open people’s eyes who are anti-CPL to take / sit in on a class. The ignorant are far more dangerous than the informed.

    2. princess says:

      Jay I agree with you ,with my whole heart the less guns the merrier.

    3. 9245 says:

      Never mind that your fantasy has not come true, and has been disprove repeatedly, today 49 of the 50 states have concealed carry, Michigan alone has about 310,000 CPL holders, that’s about 1 in 31 people, that means for every 31 people you pass statistically at least 1 of them had a gun. Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and Wyoming don’t even require permits. Yet where is the blood in the street?, where are the random shootings, and arguments turned shootouts that your side keeps insisting there will be despite all evidence to the contrary? In fact crime has gone down in every state that passed it, the more people that are armed the less crime their is. All this new law will do is allow concealed carry in more places, how does that make you less safe? In fact open carry with a CPL is already legal in those places, so how does my wearing a coat instead threaten you?

  9. ep tor says:

    The ignorant leading the ignorant.. It’s not Al Queda we need to worry about, it’s our own fruitcakes running around with guns. It’s a well known fact, a gun makes wimps and other weak people fell empowered. And these are exactly the people who’ll hobble out to the range and “practice” – because these kind have few freinds and basically no life. These are the cowards who’ll kill someone for next to no reason – just like that Zimmerman coward. If he wasn’t armed, he would never had the guts to chase that kid. However, the good news is, there’ll now be more opportunities for your state’s weak minded rednecks to eliminate each other. That’s a good thing.

    1. Fish says:

      so you would rather crooks carry, rob, rape and kill not worrying about bystanders, then take off. by the time cops show up it’s over and he’s gone. often slim chance of getting caught. are you a criminal? it sounds like that is the agenda your pushing.

    2. Fish says:

      you say your state… where are you from? Unfortunatelly where we live, there is crime. Personally witnessing personal assaults and other violence, that I chose to offer assistance well before I carried concealed, does that make me weak, to help someone even though I put my self at risk? Now I just have the ability to defend myself and others with more leverage than before. Fortunatelly I have never had to use my firearm against anyone, and I pray that the situation never arrizes where i would need to. Like most gun owners, we don’t want to shoot anybody, but if it means possibly killing someone intend on doing harm, so that the innocent person/ child/ woman/ man can live, we would do it. It would be tramatic for us, just like it would be for a cop/ military personell. There is no fantasy of glamour about using your fire arm against another human being. It is sad that you think that. Maybe you’re the one who is delussional and ignorant.

      1. harley02 says:

        Fish, I like the way you think, The other gun haters on here do not understand what how life has changed and how bad Detroit is. I work for a private security company that escorts hospice nurses to bad parts of Detroit on the side, I have seen some bad stuff down there. Prime example a hospice nurse was shot and killed for her drug case as she was helping an elderly person in the last days of his life. How about the wwII vet that was beaten in a gas station becouse someone wants his car. or how about the car that got car jacked with the child in the back seat. Just a couple of examples for all of you. If you think for one minute that you are safe going down there well good luck! I will always carry when I go!! The city is so broke right now they can pay to have more police officers on the street if you call the police it will be an hour before you see anyone. All the anti gun people on here keep waling around with blinders on and you will be a victim, myself I choose not to be.

      2. Fish says:

        Harley02, well put. Thank you for some good examples. I pray no one hating on gun owners ever experience a situation where they look back and wonder if having a gun could’ve them or someone they love.

  10. Matt says:

    Will it also make it legal for white people to kill unarmed black kids in hoodies?

    1. Fish says:

      you’re just ignorant

    2. JOSE0311USMC says:


      1. princess says:

        This is a 17 year old kid but, you would not understand that because your 1 year old or 100 years old . STOP BEING DUMB IT’S NOT TOO LATE . Because , when someone say that you threaten them and kill you that same stupid law will be in effect. That’s why we are trying to stop it now IDIOT

      2. princess says:

        I dont think too highly of anyone with the name JOSE

    3. Stacy says:

      Well if the black kids in hoodies stop running amuck and stop robbing senior citizens and peoples houses and stop acting like little thugs then there wouldn’t be any shootings.

      1. princess says:

        stacy I’ll keep that in mind when I see a thuggish looking white boy while im out jogging.

      2. 9245 says:

        What would you prefer?

        The law as it was before?, where self defense was basically illegal? Where is someone kicked in your door, you were legally required to try to run away, and get shot in the back, even if you had a gun to defend yourself? Where the criminals had more rights than the victims, where you had a choice of getting beaten, robbed, and raped, and hoping that the criminal wouldn’t kill you out of the goodness of his heart, or fighting back, shooting the criminal in self defense, and spending the rest of your life in jail, because some politically motivated prosecutor didn’t like self defense? All the castle doctrine in Florida is, is that if someone breaks in to your house you can assume they are there to hurt you, and act accordingly, or if you are attacked in public you may fight back, that’s it, and that’s what your opposing. The guy in Florida, may, or may not have gone to far, but what about everyone else?

      3. D. E. D. III says:

        You could be stupider, but it would take a big stretch on your part. When these people on here talk about “the idiots” – they’re talking about YOU Stacy.

    4. Jack says:

      That is an ignorant remark.

  11. Fish says:

    To all the anti-gun people on here, you may attack my beliefs and my rights, but like most God fearing gun owners, I would gladly step up and risk my own well being to protect you and yours if the situation arrises and our paths cross during a criminal attack. I love all people and truly believe in the constitution, which includes your right to voice your opinions. i would never lobby against that right because it could breed hate or make people uncomfortable, so why lobby against other rights which we believe strongly with all of our hearts. Not agreeing with something doesn’t mean the right should be taken away by government. If a business owner chooses to ban guns, as a citizen it is thier right. Let the business owners decide what they want to support.

  12. JOSE0311USMC says:


  13. JOSE0311USMC says:


    1. harley02 says:

      Jose0311usmc, Well said!

  14. Jack says:

    It appears that there will be a lot of “No Firearms Allowed” signs going up across Michigan. It also appears that the CCW Holders were a lot better off before these changes. The old adage of “Out of Sight, Out of Mind.” applied here.

  15. D. E. D. III says:

    These jerk offs are gonna get a lot of people killed. All Republicans are going to lose my vote and I guarantee the murder rate will double in the Detroit Metro area……On the 16th Obama ratified Martial Law for the entire country and when the shooting starts, well, let’s just say I’ll be pointing my gun at the people who started the problems.

    1. Fish says:

      It sounds like your threatening the politicians who support gun rights. Are you? Maybe it’s good that you don’t like guns, because if you wanted to carry one, and made comments like that you wouldn’t get a permit to. Thank you for not having guns. Like you guys say we don’t want nut jobs to have guns!

  16. M says:

    NRA is at work in the Republican party again we know who they are working for. The no FIrearms signs are not going to stop anyone…Look at the guy trying to get alot of guns and knives on a plane….Most people who have guns should not be having them any way. I am 52 years old never had a gun and never shot a gun. Brother died because of one. Another stupied law where are all the jobs thats what they should be working on not this stuff.

  17. BigMike11 says:

    give me 1 good reason for needing s a gun in church or at a football game??
    that’s like when they moved arts, beats and eats to Royal Oak and everyone realize how many blacks and “others” would be there they got that city to pass a law so they could carry guns. It’s all out of fear, can’t you ppl see that.

    1. harley02 says:

      o.k. her is your reason look up church robbery on sept. 12th 2011 in little rock Arkansas. 3 people came into the church with semi automatic weapons and robbed the people in church. They also interviewed a woman that said that the robbers pointed a gun at here grand daughter. Look it up. If you need more examples let me know.

      1. harley02 says:

        Almost forgot, 2007 virgina tech. and 1999 Columbine. School shootings that could have been stopped if teachers could carry in schools.

      2. twarns says:

        It is ironic that a Christian will take a gun into their house of worship. Jesus message was clear that we must trust him, that he will protect us. If you feel that you are not safe in your church and need a weapon on you to protect you, then your belief in Jesus must be light.

        I would venture to say in little rock AK, that it would have been wise to love the robbers and act according to the teachings of Jesus and rely on HIS protection than rely on a civilian taking a pistol out and esclating a terrible situation.

      3. twarns says:

        Harley02 stated, 2007 virgina tech. and 1999 Columbine. School shootings that could have been stopped if teachers could carry in schools.

        That is pure speculation on your part.

      4. harley02 says:

        twarns, I love when you ask for examples and you put some crazy off the wall answer back becouse you sit in front of your computer and say to yourself “wow, he gave me some concrete evidence and i have to comment, becouse if i dont that makes me look i dont know what i am talking about”.

      5. twarns says:


        I find it off the wall that a professed Christian would ever take a gun into their house of worship. It is clearly against the teachings of Jesus Christ. Love your neighbor like yourself. Turn your cheek and Love your enemies.

        Maybe you should check out the recent shooting at a church where a concealed weapon went off accidently and shot a girl who is still in the hospital.

        But hey that is just my church. I should not speak for yours.

        In addition, every professional would tell you that you try to negotiate your way out of a hostage situation and not just come guns blazing. Professionals will also tell you that you would not discharge your firearm in a room of people.

        But of course rank amatuers would not know this.

        1. says:

          Link to discharge?carried legally or not?

          SWAT never take a clear shot huh?they just bring in the requested chopper right?I suppose you are not a rank amatuer but a tactical trainer.I guess that’s why there are armed us marshals on flights rather than personal life trainers.DS.

          And for the WWJD nonsense, Christian nut jobs concern me much more than the armed petty thief .

          happy to see this stuff is going in the right direction.

  18. Green Pus says:

    If there is no evidence to back up a gun ban then the second amendment should take precedence. This is America. Innocent until proven guilty. We are supposed to err on the side of liberty. Why should criminals have an advantage over honest citizens who are trained and have undergone the same background checks as the police? Do you think criminals pay attention to “no guns” signs? These so-called “gun free zones” should have been called “victim rich zones” instead.

    1. specom says:

      WHA?! Why would there be more blacks in Royal Oak than in PONTIAC?

    2. Marko says:

      “honest citizens?” Since when. Every day I read the DN or the DFP and these “honest citizens” are breaking the law. lol. How many of you lie to get anything you think you can get away with?

  19. twarns says:

    The notion that Detroit Sporting Events is unsafe just does not make sense. In 2011 there were nearly 4M fans going to games(Wings, Tigers,Lions) without the permission to carry a weapon into the arena. There is no blood bath at these venues. These numbers show it is safe in and around those venues.

    These numbers show that a reasonable person is safe in and around those venues. That these businesses must be already providing a safe place to take our kids,our wives and our girlfriends.

    If it really was unsafe, the attendance at these venues would not be nearly at 100%. Any suggestion that additional weapons in those areas makes anyone safer is just deliberately ignoring the facts.

  20. Braydin Walters says:

    So what happens when two fans get into and argument over a sporting event and have pistols in their pockets? We cant have twenty people pulling out weapons.

    1. theaton says:

      The anti-gun people always try and use these arguments to further infringe the rights of law abiding citizens. Their predictions rarely come true. CCW holders are around 5 times less likely to be arrested than the general population.

    2. Marko says:

      Excellent point Braydin Walters. When I visit a game in Metro Detroit what I see are a bunch of fat, over-the-hill white guys with bald heads or young guys with a “hear-me-roar” mentality and both sides are drunk. The idea of adding firearms to this mix is not good reasoning. Every guy that I have ever met that tells me about his concealed permit is doing nothing but bragging. It’s like he wants to show everyone his big dik. Like I care? Guys that carry guns are concerned with making America safe. That is a feel-good lie that they all like to tell. What they really want to do is just brag about carrying a gun. It is bad enough that these clowns cannot control themselves at games after drinking beer. Now more innocent people will get shot because of one of these clowns throwing a temper-tantrum because someone accidentally step on his foot or “looked at him wrong”. You can bet that this will happen.

  21. NoMo says:

    Who determines whom is “HIGHLY TRAINED”? Sounds like a reason NOT to issue.

  22. Scott says:

    Carry a firearm into an arena? No thanks. Most of you alcoholic, ill-mannered and uneducated moron’s should stay home. Most of you can’t even handle drinking beer without being a drunken a-hole because of your lack of anger control. And then you get in your stupid truck, tailgate those on the highway, flip the bird, all because you’re jonesing for another beer at the local pub. And you want to carry a gun into a football or baseball game? Please,,,it’s bad enough on the roads and at businesses with all of you Detroiter’s that throw temper-tantrums like little boys and girls and now the State Senate committee wants to open the law wider?

    So what we’ll see is this; an angry white male Metro Detroiter, over-weight, bald head, goutee, disgruntled at life, high-school educated, minimum wage earner, drinks beers 7 nights a week, mentally incompetent to make reasonable decisions based on common sense, cares nothing about others but himself, married to a land cow, drives drunk daily, hates his wife, drives a stupid truck, smokes dope, and now carrys a gun into an event? No thanks. I’ll stay home to watch games on t.v.

    1. harley02 says:

      Scott, Thank god you dont carry, sounds like you have a lot of anger penned up inside.

    2. Fish says:

      SCOTT, people that get concealed carry permits are generally law abiding citizens. If they have a DWI, Reckless, or various other crimes on their record they can’t be issued one. Also there is a 0.02 bac limit for carrying a fire arm. That is about less than half of a beer. You seem really racist assuming all concealed pistol carriers are white. Have you been to any gun shows? It is a mixing bowl of people. Asian, Middle Eastern, Black, White, hispanic, poor, wealthy and everything in between. My class instructers were both black.

      1. Fish says:

        I am however a fat white male that drives a truck. Funny though.

    3. specom says:

      LandCow? Bwahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha!

  23. airduster says:

    Here in Fla they have the right to carry, law and it is very easy to get a weapon to carry conceled. All you have to be is a Fla resident with no felony convictions and a .Fla drivers license Coupled with tihis they have a Stand Your Ground law. This allows a person to to use lethal force if necessay if they feel that their life is threatened. Since the shooter is the only person to tell the tale of what happened, only they know what they felt i the mind there is very little conviction for a homicide where the shooter claims self defense.. Is this what may happen in Michigan? Check the news (tampa) if you havent heard about it on the news for Zimmerman killing Martin . Zimmerman claimed self defense and as today no arrest has been made. I am a resident of michigan

  24. Dan LaRouche says:

    Even if this legislation fixes something, it is insignificant compared to other life saving options. I would be willing to bet that 90% of Michigan’s voters would consider this to be a waste of our tax this time. I am only one vote but I plan on voting accordingly.

  25. google says:

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts about vibNews. Regards

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